Curse

X Black Chaos X · Sep 10, 2009, 02:18 AM // 02:18

I logged in today after not playing for a few months. I come back to find out that HB adn TA are being removed from the play format. In exchange for sealed deck play. I along w/ mass majority of players are upset over this descion.

First of i know for a fact several players including myself have started hundreds of threads stateing what changes needed to be made to tehse arenas. We've given Anet so much input into makeing their game better for us to play. However it's been neglected. After more than a year, Anet finally decides to look at HB seriously?

The mass majority of players who stoped playing HB and who still played HB all had a common problem of that format that could've been adjusted w/ the nerfing of skills that aren't used in any other pvp format. i.e. Shadow Meld, Recall, Aura of Displacment. These three skills allowed players to turn mathces into the most boring thing to play against and also dumb down the game play. It exploits the use of caping shrines to gain points. Lindsey did your team look at this? I dont think they did, because this would have been a lot more than a band-aid.

GW is a fun game to play however, the lack of customer relations is so terrible that people quit and leave due to it. I understand it's not easy to PR for any mmorpg but, this wasn't done right. So many options other than removing these formats would've bene benefical. HB and TA server as starting grounds for players to get more involved into PvP. Why couldn't have someone from Anet talk to the players and actually use the input given.

Sealed deck play actually would've proved to be more enjoyable in the TA and HB formats rather than createing a whole nother arena, sure to have kinks as well.

I think Arena Net owes the player base of GW an apology for neglecting their input. Yes GW requires no subscription fee, however that doesnt' give them the right to not listen to how we feel, nor act on it.

In no way am i flameing, Arena net or it's affilates. I do believe that they owe the long time players of TA and HB an apology.

EDIT:
Also how do we as your game base, know that you will better your current dev to gamer relations in GW2? I understand no dev company can be perfect, however there is a big need for improvement. I personally dont want to play GW2 if it lacks the support and dev to gamer relations GW1 currently has.

EDIT2: This thread is not about how bad or flawed TA or HB formats are, tihs thread is about the lack of cooperation Anet has w/ players in teh pvp community in makeing changes and adjustments to arena's and skills. Please do not post why you think HB or TA is boring, this thread is not about that. If Anet decided to take away a format you love to play on, even though numerous and dozens of players have given evidence and input on how to fix it for the better, would you not be upset as well? suppose they took away HA or GvG, yes unlikely but use this as an example.

Greedy Gus · Sep 10, 2009, 02:26 AM // 02:26

You definitely don't speak for a mass majority of players.

X Black Chaos X · Sep 10, 2009, 02:36 AM // 02:36

I'm talking about the loyal base of players who played this game for over 1 1/2 plus. Anet doesn't really have good relations between the players and themselves. Alot of People put in a lot of time to talk about how to fix hero battles. Alot of comprise with a lot of people to get changes that we all agreed on. I dont want to turn this into a Q.Q thread. Seriously, I'm tired of seeing Anet just make descions like this w/out thinking about that players who actually play the game. it's like they they have one version of GW and we have another.

Gboy Mesmero · Sep 10, 2009, 02:36 AM // 02:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Greedy Gus

You definitely don't speak for a mass majority of players.

Well, even if he isn't he still has a valid point

Foe · Sep 10, 2009, 02:50 AM // 02:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Greedy Gus

You definitely don't speak for a mass majority of players.

The majority of players and guru posters have always been the perfect quality compass. In fact, when a discussion gets rolling in the Riverside Inn in a new skill update thread i am simply blown away by the majorities genius and insight.

Razz L Dazzle · Sep 10, 2009, 02:51 AM // 02:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by X Black Chaos X

I along w/ mass majority of players are upset over this descion.

Clearly not true.

What makes you (or others) believe that HB is a format worth saving? I haven't heard people defend what's great about HB. I never found it enjoyable enough to play more than once and am curious as to whats great about it? (If your answer is monthly AT's, prizes, reward points, and ladder then I can't support this arena in any way b/c THOSE reward could be placed in several other PvP formats.)

I believe TA was more deserving of those rewards than HB ever has been.

I don't support removing TA either but i prefer the Sealed deck over it in the current state of guild wars 1. I would hope A-Net supports a Team Arenas format better in Guild wars 2 because it had much more potential. And not giving it support was a big failure on Guild Wars part to make a good PvP arena.

X Black Chaos X · Sep 10, 2009, 03:13 AM // 03:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Razz L Dazzle

Clearly not true.

What makes you (or others) believe that HB is a format worth saving? I haven't heard people defend what's great about HB. I never found it enjoyable enough to play more than once and am curious as to whats great about it? (If your answer is monthly AT's, prizes, reward points, and ladder then I can't support this arena in any way b/c THOSE reward could be placed in several other PvP formats.)

I believe TA was more deserving of those rewards than HB ever has been.

I don't support removing TA either but i prefer the Sealed deck over it in the current state of guild wars 1. I would hope A-Net supports a Team Arenas format better in Guild wars 2 because it had much more potential. And not giving it support was a big failure on Guild Wars part to make a good PvP arena.

First off, let's not turn this into a thread about which arena is better. This thead is about the lack of Developer to gamer communication. The lack of changes and ideas we give to arena net that aren't considered.

Also HB in theory, is a very difficult arena to play, and enjoyable on a balanced format. (However when players dumb down the gameplay like mentioned above, it's not difficult or enjoyable to play). Microing 4 characters usualy of 2-3 different proffesions isn't something everyone can do. (useing the right skills at the right time etc.)

I agree w/ what you say about TA, I also like to add that it helps players work w/ other players in the same guild to build teamwork and communication on vent. (i.e. learning to call properly, watch the field, call out important hexes and conditions, etc)

but once again lets not turn this into a disucion of which arean is better than the other. Lets stick to topic,

Chocobo1 · Sep 10, 2009, 03:14 AM // 03:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Razz L Dazzle

Clearly not true.

What makes you (or others) believe that HB is a format worth saving? I haven't heard people defend what's great about HB. I never found it enjoyable enough to play more than once and am curious as to whats great about it? (If your answer is monthly AT's, prizes, reward points, and ladder then I can't support this arena in any way b/c THOSE reward could be placed in several other PvP formats.)

Oh well if YOU PERSONALLY don't find it enjoyable then WE MUST DESTROY IT AND ANYTHING TO DO WITH IT.

FOR I AM THE TERMINATOR.

Razz L Dazzle · Sep 10, 2009, 03:37 AM // 03:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by X Black Chaos X

First off, let's not turn this into a thread about which arena is better.

My post doesn't debate which is better.

Quote:

Originally Posted by X Black Chaos X

Also HB in theory, is a very difficult arena to play, and enjoyable on a balanced format.

Most HB supporters say this but can't elaborate on what is fun, balanced , difficult , and skillful about this arena. I've found most answers refer to the rewards for playing HB and not the format itself. If titles, ladder, rewards points, tournaments were removed from HB would people play HB? Or asking is the rewards the only reason for playing?

People have TA'd for a long time and had almost none of that support.

Quote:

Originally Posted by some idiot

Oh well if YOU PERSONALLY don't find it enjoyable then WE MUST DESTROY IT AND ANYTHING TO DO WITH IT.

FOR I AM THE TERMINATOR.

I didn't even suggest we should destroy it in my post, reading comprehension needed. I'm asking you to defend what's good about the arena. If we are to assume resources are limited, which they are, and Guildwars to has choose which arena to support you have to come up with something more to convince me or A-net that the decision they are about to make is the wrong one.

Most HB threads are petitions and none have of an eloquent poster that is making a good argument that HB needs some minor changes and the arena can be saved with minimal time and resources.

Dakka Dakka · Sep 10, 2009, 03:47 AM // 03:47

I, for the record, am ecstatic that stupidly broken formats like HB and TA are being removed and I am looking forward to seeing how the sealed deck format is going to work, I never saw a good explanation on how sealed deck works, If it is anything like Magic then my geuss is that each player gets a certain number of skills to work with and build a build and then play the match. Am I close?

Shayne Hawke · Sep 10, 2009, 04:02 AM // 04:02

Please read through the five or six other threads that have already discussed these topics in length. Some of them haven't been closed yet, surprisingly, so go take your conversation over there.

Also, good riddance to them both, I welcome our new supreme overlord SD.

Ghost Dog · Sep 10, 2009, 04:04 AM // 04:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dakka Dakka

I, for the record, am ecstatic that stupidly broken formats like HB and TA are being removed and I am looking forward to seeing how the sealed deck format is going to work, I never saw a good explanation on how sealed deck works, If it is anything like Magic then my geuss is that each player gets a certain number of skills to work with and build a build and then play the match. Am I close?

Pretty much, and it will be sweet.

poasiods · Sep 10, 2009, 04:16 AM // 04:16

-Shadowform is OP
-Monks farm too well
-Sins farm too well
-Bring back ursan
-Kill OP PvE skills
-Buff unused skills
-Nerf popular skills
-Destroy PvX
-Stop banning people
-Ban this guy
-Hardmode is too hard
-PvE has no challenge
-Fix this lag
-Fix that lag
-Fix my epic armor's clipping issues
-Fix syncing
-Fix game crashes
-HB sucks
-HA sucks
-GvG sucks
-RA sucks
-FA sucks
-JQ sucks
-TA sucks
-Buff Paragons
-Nerf Paragons
-Fix AB map rotation
-Buff this skill
-Nerf this skill
-Un-Nerf this skill my main used to use all the time.
-Fix AI
-GW has horrible customer relations.

GW dev's are not going to hang around these forums and read all your suggestions and make changes at your whim.

Also, I doubt you've done much to show your support for HB or even have participated in it very much at all, seeing you've just logged in today after months of absence. You clearly don't represent the more dedicated majority of HB or GW players, and I don't really think you'd be affected by it as heavily as the next guy.

Instead of abandoning HB to its boring-arse format or adjusting perfectly reasonable skills to utter-uselessness just to keep them from being used, they're putting in alot of effort to change it up. That sounds like dedication to me.

Bob Slydell · Sep 10, 2009, 04:23 AM // 04:23

I'm personally glad the elitist build perfectionist group making TA is going bye bye.

Xenex Xclame · Sep 10, 2009, 04:40 AM // 04:40

Lets get something straight right of the bat,the mass majority of player are happy HB is being removed,there's a size that wants to keep it.

Maybe they did look at what was being said to be changed maybe they even tried it, and found out it would help but something else would pop up and break HB again.Or maybe your right, they didnt pay any attention to it, but when they finally did realized how of a broken system HB was, and they couldn't fix heroes in HB otherwise it would make heroes worse in the other parts of HB.So they decided whats the better thing to do,you get rid of the things that aren't so good.

TA was dead there's is nothing much more i can say about it besides it was dead,it was a great idea, but i dunno why but it died,maybe people just got bored with it.I would have hoped it it got better , but im not all too sad that it is getting removed for sealed play.

No your right you didnt flame them-

You assumed that Anet never looked at HB
You exageratted your numbers
You assume that they never looked into fixing HB
You assume that lots of players leave because of bad CR
You state facts that are probably wrong
You assume they owe you something just because you play theyr game, you already have the game

I feel like GW is pretty nice compared to other companies and they just need to improve a little bit more.I'll play GW2 for sure, i mean have you seen the trailer? Its 4:50 Long!

IronSheik · Sep 10, 2009, 06:11 AM // 06:11

Some people say "Lol wut's so great about HB?"

I counter with, what is going to be so great about a sealed deck format that will have rare/none at all change to the selectable skills over time.

TA should be gone though, I get 20 minute waits on the time I'm actually able to play.

urania · Sep 10, 2009, 07:53 AM // 07:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chrisworld

I'm personally glad the elitist build perfectionist group making TA is going bye bye.

god forbid there's optimal builds, eh?

Quote:

Originally Posted by IronSheik

Some people say "Lol wut's so great about HB?"

I counter with, what is going to be so great about a sealed deck format that will have rare/none at all change to the selectable skills over time.

TA should be gone though, I get 20 minute waits on the time I'm actually able to play.

welcome to TA dead hours - the same time when u cannot get a match in gvg and land straight in HoH from the first HA map. Plausible reason to remove the arena? I think not.

IMMORTAlMITCH · Sep 10, 2009, 07:56 AM // 07:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by IronSheik

a sealed deck format that will have rare/none at all change to the selectable skills over time.

????

Afaik the current plan is to change the decks every week, now a bit more often (twice a week, every other day or even every day or my favorite suggestion, every 36 hours) wouldn't be bad but once a week already makes it a lot more exciting than TA.

HB I don't think many people will actually miss for anything other than not being able to grind the title anymore or to run stupid shit on obs mode in mat finals. The concept is simply flawed.

I really hope SD will draw a lot of attention so AT/Ladder support will be added, I for one am excited about it.

Osiris_sam · Sep 10, 2009, 09:15 AM // 09:15

while at risk of adding to the 'TA is bad/TA is great' arguement which seems to be oh so popular.

Removing TA because you fail/cant play the effective builds/dont like it is not a valid excuse since, clearly, lots of people do. (granted its not as many people who sit and grind pve... but i cant stand that and hate doing it... remove pve pls).

HB is conceptually flawed, some of the maps are bugged, and hero ai is dumb. This is BEFORE we start talking about problem skills, which are far more abundant in HB than other formats. Skills you mentioned, such as aura of displacement and shadow meld are valid in GvG for example, where extreme mobility is sometimes desirable. (and for the more experieced GvGers, i am by no means suggesting that they are worth running in this meta) Nerfing these skills for HB would undoubtedly remove their effectiveness in niche gvg builds.

I too am looking forward to playing SD, providing skill rotations are fairly frequent, 36 hours looks like a good timeframe. however i enjoy TA, and dont want to see that go (i know a lot of people who feel the same)

I understand that the PR from anet hasnt been 'top notch', and sometimes things which are obviously broken to the playerbase dont get fixed, and some stupid buffs go through...(for linsey: like srsly, dont) but the fact of the matter is, they DO listen to player feedback, but afaik from a small group of GvGers. which, unfortunatly, leaves smaller formats, like TA, to sit in the same meta for longer.

Another thing to be considered, is the fact that effects are effectively doubled in 4v4 as compared to 8v8. As such, things which are 'balanced' (i use this term extremely lightly) for 8v8 often develop problems in 4v4. However, as has been pointed out on numerous occasions, powerful gimmicks/templates usually migrate between formats (mind blast, ff necros, R/As, this list is totally endless), having said that, to balance all formats, separate skillsets for each format would be needed, which is not a viable solution, although quite possibly better than format removal.

enjoy my readers dijest, i now welcome any flames (i mean comments).

Darth The Xx · Sep 10, 2009, 09:22 AM // 09:22

Sorry but the OP's rant really made me have to reply to this thread, the problem isn't JUST Melders. Its not JUST shadow steps its a vast multitude of builds. The PROBLEM with HB is the fact that no matter what you do, players will find a way to exploit something.

You kill melders, those players will just run triple packers if they don't already. You kill packer's they'll just run some triple W/P variant, if you kill that they'll run scythe escape rangers or R/As or something then theres hex spammers, eles etc etc and on top of that you have a lot format where people run overly defensive builds (3/4 of your team is healers) and nothing dies except on the odd successful spike.

But this is not even a problem with skills, even if you fix the skills not much will change. Why? The format relies upon you using heroes and exploiting AI not player skill. Say what you will but there are certain things AI are a hell of a lot better at doing than people, ie Interupting, Wep Spells/prots etc. Then there's the things heroes blow at, such as bar synergies, intelligent use of stances, general pressure all of this contributes to the retardedly overly defensive builds where u see a Mo/A, Mo/N, Rt/N, W/E or A/W teams.

It seems to me the OP fails to see all the things wrong with HB, you think if they could fix it they wouldn't? The fact is the resources required to fix it far outweigh the tiny player base it has, sorry but its a sad fact, therefore they opted to create a new arena which will attract new and old players alike. How is this a problem?

just my $0.02